Why doesn't GM get that its RWD offerings from Down Under don't work here?

"LJ909" (lj909) 01/05/2016 at 14:36 • Filed to: None

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As much as we love them, they don’t work here for whatever reason. I don’t think it has anything to do with the cars being rwd. Chrysler has sold tons of 300’s and Chargers for years and other rwd vehicles have sold well so what gives?

The Catera was a solid offering from Cadillac that was supposed to be a sports sedan. It had plenty of marketing with those catchy “The Caddy that Ziggs” commercials that I remember as a kid. Aside from the quality issues it was a good car that could have been better but it didn’t sell well at all.

The GTO, which was platform related to the Catera and was one of Bob Lutz’s babies, was a well known flop but a capable muscle car, especially after it received the 400 horse LS2 in 05. But we all know the invisible styling was one of the major problems with it. And it really didn’t have any advertising. Again, great car, but flopped.

Recently we had the (R.I.P) G8 and the often compared to M5 G8 GXP (which is a Unicorn on the used market). It was even better than the other two cars, but it flopped hard and went when Pontiac went under. Again, it had no advertising at all. I was at a GMC Pontiac dealer and we had 3. Customers came in and had no idea what it was or that it existed. Even some Pontiac fan boys. Another excellent car but flopped.

Recently we have the SS. Its been called an excellent drives car with some even saying get one over an SRT8 Charger because it can handle itself in the twisties. But I think you can call it a flop. Yea its true that GM wasn’t going to bring over a lot from down under, but even the few they have brought over haven’t sold. Some dealers still have 14’s. Again, great car, but same problem as before: invisible styling, no advertising.

So why does GM keep trying? Its great they have these cars for the few enthusiasts out there, but I thought they would have given up mid cycle with the GTO. Why do you guys think these cars didn’t or don’t sell, and why do you think GM keeps trying?

spanfucker retire bitch > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:40

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Aren’t they contractually obligated to offer at least one vehicle from Australia here in the States?

I thought I read that here on Oppo.

crowmolly > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:41

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IMO, the SS is too pricey. Not saying it’s a bad cost/benefit, just that the segment that they are going for isn’t looking for a Chevy. A lower price with less features may not be that out of the question.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:41

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It doesn’t work because they were designed to work upside down.

Party-vi > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:41

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The Cetera wasn’t a Caddy, the GTO had all the styling of a dallop of sour cream, the G8 was a 5-series competitor with nothing to make it as nice as a 5-Series, and still, nobody is going to pay $45k for a 4-door Chevy with a Corvette engine, because there are two types of people in the world; people that want a 4-door Corvette-engined Chevy but cannot afford it, and people who can afford a 4-door Corvette-engined Chevy but already purchased a Corvette.

LJ909 > spanfucker retire bitch 01/05/2016 at 14:42

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I thought I saw that somewhere too. But if that’s true its a bogus ass contract. It would probably work better for Ford.

LJ909 > crowmolly 01/05/2016 at 14:43

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I totally agree. Its pushing Corvette money and down on power even with other, no performance orientated cars. Its about 5-10k more than it should be. But I don’t think they are going to offer a lower priced version and if they did, it probably wouldn’t be that much cheaper.

Matthew Phillips > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:45

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Don’t forget that it had it’s own video game as well starring Vin Diesel

For Sweden > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:46

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It should have been a Buick for the same price.

LJ909 > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:46

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Your right. But there’s a 3rd type: People that want a 4 door Chevy with a Corvette motor but don’t know that one exists because the damn thing doesn’t have any advertising for it. You would think that 4 doors and a Vette engine would work. Its kind of worked for Cadillac with the CTS V, so why doesn’t it with a cheaper Chevy version?

Ash78, voting early and often > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:46

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The Cetera wasn’t a Caddy.

The Cetera did it all for the Glory of Love, but it won’t carry your damned golf clubs.

Matthew Phillips > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:46

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This should have been a Buick or a Cadillac.

not for canada - australian in disguise > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:47

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What GM should really do is stop trying to sell the Holdens as luxury cars. They’re not. Sell them to compete with the Charger, give them AWD and a V6. Keep the performance options for the enthusiast, but give them an actual chance to sell well.

Ash78, voting early and often > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:48

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why do you think GM keeps trying?

Because they lurk on Jalopnik, Autoblog, and The Truth About Cars.

We’ve been fucking with GM for like 20 years.

LJ909 > Matthew Phillips 01/05/2016 at 14:49

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A Buick not a Cadillac. Could have been a Park Avenue like they have in China. But I guess Buick is content with a badge engineered Opel lineup.

Party-vi > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:49

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Because nobody wants a Chevy that beats an M5. They want a Cadillac that will do it, especially GM.

If I think the only American way to womp German ass is with an $84,000 Cadillac, then that is fine for GM, because otherwise I would only spend $46,000 to do it in the SS. GM will never taut any vehicle over Cadillac except the Corvette. They would rather you purchased a CTS V-Sport than the SS.

wiffleballtony > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:50

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Cater and GTO were too bland looking. G8 probably could have sold better with solid marketing, and had Pontiac not died. SS way too overpriced for what is essentially a modified G8 GXP that looks like a Malibu.

Matthew Phillips > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:51

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Or bring it back as a recent nameplate, the Lucerne, or just GS.

LJ909 > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:51

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Thats another problem that the bankruptcy didnt really solve, product overlap. 2 Corvette powered sedans, one luxury, one near luxury ( or in the case of Chevy, luxury) and they both don’t sell alot. Doesn’t make sense.

dogisbadob > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:52

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needed a sunroof and a cheaper base V6 model

dogisbadob > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2016 at 14:53

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Orlove should buy one

LJ909 > Matthew Phillips 01/05/2016 at 14:53

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Lucerne could work. To me that was actually the last great Buick. GS or T-Type could work too. But Buick doesn’t have the balls. They are too focused on the American Toyota Solara Cascadia and that new Chinese crossover.

wiffleballtony > Party-vi 01/05/2016 at 14:53

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My G8 has started to have repair bills like an M5.

LJ909 > dogisbadob 01/05/2016 at 14:55

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Last decade pre Bankruptcy GM V6 in a GTO? No thanks. probably would’ve been the boat anchor 3800 Series II.

Justin Hughes > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2016 at 14:56

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Like this?

dogisbadob > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:56

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They work fine, but GM is just a childish half-ass as usual.

The Caprice is only sold to fleet customers and even got ANGRY when a dealer DARED sell one to a retail customer . Instead, they should happily sell them to anyone who wants one. Get rid of the lame-ass Impala.

At least they sell them here at all. *cough*Ford*cough*

Have they seriously never seen an LX Charger or 300?

duurtlang > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:58

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The Catera was a softened and Americanized (extra weight, no manual, no wagon) Opel Omega. The Opel was neither a luxury car nor sporty. It was a cheap barge. I don’t understand why GM imagined they could get away with marketing a less sporty version of a non-sporty car as a sports sedan. And a luxury one at that.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 14:59

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Because they only advertise their trucks.

crowmolly > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:00

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A friend of mine works at a Chevy dealer that has moved a few of them this year. There’s two out in front now. He shares the same opinion- that’s a lot of money for a Chevy sedan- Brembo brakes or not.

Milky > not for canada - australian in disguise 01/05/2016 at 15:02

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Its always been this. Should have replaced the Impala with a full range of the SS essesesessss. In AU you can get it with 250-580hp, thats a full product lineup.

Svend > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:02

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The thing is what works in one market won’t always work in another, but by adopting a car from time to time from the other market it keeps the home market circulating at less cost than a whole new car.

I think the U.S. market is ripe for the Vauhall/Opel/Holden Adam, Corsa, Astra and Insignia tourer. Adam to head up the Fiat 500, Corsa to take on the Fiesta, the Astra the Focus and the Insignia tourer to add an estate car to the line up (along with the Astra tourer).

Adam = 3 door

Corsa = 3 door and 5 door

Astra = 3 door (GTC), 5 door and estate

GTC above to be replaced with the new design of the car below

Insignia tourer = estate

DoYouEvenShift > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:02

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This guy came from down under.

AfromanGTO > dogisbadob 01/05/2016 at 15:03

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It’s a GTO not a Mustang. Shame on you.

There was a supercharged V6 option for the Monaro, V8 option, and supercharged V8 option through HSV or Harrop.

Party-vi > For Sweden 01/05/2016 at 15:04

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I am all for a 2.8L twin turbo AWD Opel Insignia OPC with a Buick badge. Too bad they already brought that over, removed the good stuff, and called it the Regal GS.

jariten1781 > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:05

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They’d do fine if they were Chevy’s exclusive large sedan. Should have brought them in as a full line (2.0T -> Vette motor) and killed the Impala if they really wanted to make a go of it. As is they have to be priced up to not cannibalize the homegrown sales which makes them a niche of niche.

I drove one though...it was super nice. I really liked it. May have bought it if I could have gotten over my distaste for a three box.

DoYouEvenShift > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:06

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This should of been an Impala SS, and about 10k cheaper.

deekster_caddy > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:06

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GM hasn’t been advertising much of anything except Pickup Trucks, Cadillac and the Cruze Eco. The Volt, which was (and still is) amazing got barely any advertising, people STILL have no idea what it is or what it can do. They only seem to be advertising that which makes very high margins, or that which can help bring their average fleet back up to CAFE standards.

Milky > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 01/05/2016 at 15:07

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Thats not Chevy’s doing, those are real people.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Milky 01/05/2016 at 15:08

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I’m very confused.

Matthew Phillips > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:10

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If I didn’t loathe working on front wheel drive cars I would definitely spring for a Lucerne over my Cv.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:11

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it's not 5-10k more than it should be, it's 5-10k more than people expect a chevy to be. Nobody remebers the '96 Impala, and there's nothing else in to equate it with.

Milky > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 01/05/2016 at 15:13

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I hate Chevy ads. Thats all really.

AMC/Renauledge > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:14

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These cars all flopped for different reasons:

1) The Catera was incredibly unreliable, slow, and heavy for its day. The ad campaign was terrible and the moment sales fell shy of expectations, GM abandoned its further development and marketing.

2) The GTO was an excellent car saddled by a brand pushing out stripped 10 year-old $10k Sunfires, collapsible Montanas, and hideous Azteks. Few were going to plunk down $35k on a 10 year-old platform with an arrowhead badge nailed to a fairly bland exterior. Plus coupe sales were bottoming out at that point.

3) The G8 had most of the GTO’s problems and more. It wasn’t particularly exciting to look at. It was launched just as gas prices and the AUD skyrocketed, the former of which got better during the GFC, while the latter got worse. And still, Pontiac was going to have a hard time convincing $35k sport sedan buyers to line up for a badge affixed to an Aveo, while the rest of the line proved to be the official car of Avis. And the G8 name evoked zero history.

4) The SS and Caprice still suffer from profit-jeopardizing AUD-USD exchange rates and shipping costs. Which is part of why we only get certain low-volume niche versions of these models in the US before GM shutters their AU factories for good in the next couple years. There are also branding issues with the SS.

Chrysler could get away with Chargers and 300s because they were getting away with Vipers and Ram SRTs and the like. They made the cars exciting to look at from the beginning and started with more saleable sedans first AND affixed powerful heritage names to them. Their large cars had been making design waves for the decade since the LH cars.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Milky 01/05/2016 at 15:15

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I don’t blame you. They’re pretty terrible.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:17

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GM has a inbred culture that discourages different overseas branches of GM from selling each other’s cars. That’s why we don’t get astras and hot hatch versions of various cars. GM has not realized the “selling Euro versions of car” works well, just like what ford is doing

AfromanGTO > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:18

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Catera was a good Opel, but not a Caddy. Although it was a fun car to drive, my buddy had one with some mods on it, and it was fun to drive. It even had a small shot of nitros on it. lol

The GTO was screwed up by the dealers not allowing people to test drive GTOs. Price gouge the 04s up to the 40s, and then have them sit on the lots when the 05s came out with the LS2. Plus the Solstice came out, and took away some of the attention from the GTOs. The 05-06 weren’t advertised much, because the Monaro no longer meet safety requirements for Australia and were being discontinued. I think they had 2 commercials.

The G8/VE Commodore was a good start, and they should have made a lot more GXPs with the LS3 and T56. Then again certain dealers would not order a GXP, or would say the GT is the same thing. Also they were still selling the Solstice, and that had more appeal to buyers than a large sedan with a LS3 V8. They should have brought the G8 ST Ute over, before going bankrupt. Then that happened and they killed off Pontiac. When they should have killed off Chevy let GMC take over the truck sales, and let the Vette be a Halo car with no brand except GM.

The SS is poorly advertised, and I bet GM spent more on their intern’s lunch than the advertisement budget for the SS. They didn’t even attempt to really change it from a Holden Commodore. All it takes is a grille swap, steering wheel cover, radio display, wheel emblems, and trunk lid emblems to make it a Holden again. They should have brought it over with the Ute and Wagon, and just called them Holdens.

I for one am glad these cars aren’t super popular, and that’s keeping prices down. I just wished the cheaper cars had better owners, and less FPFQ!

Speed > AfromanGTO 01/05/2016 at 15:19

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Truth. They built the supercharged Monaro CV6’s. I think of these as the closest thing to the spiritual successor of the Grand National ever built. It’s a RWD GM with a blown 3.8 V6.

It’s the same basic L67 3.8 put into FWD Regal GS’s, Grand Prix GTP’s, Monte Carlos, Impala SS’s and Bonneville SSei’s. The L67 is an improved version of the LC2 that was in the Grand Nationals.

A turbo swapped Monaro CV6 would be a bad ass car and it’s too bad we never got them here. The opportunity to bring the GN back was right there.

DoYouEvenShift > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:20

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If youre talking about thr CTSV, I see quite a bit of them.

AfromanGTO > Speed 01/05/2016 at 15:23

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There was so much potential for that to be the next GN. But what’s even more disappointing was the HSV Coupe 4! Awd and a V8 coupe. Why didn’t we get these in America again???????????? Because the Vette wouldn’t be the fastest at something, and the owners would bitch on their way to Cracker Barrel.

crowmolly > wiffleballtony 01/05/2016 at 15:25

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Cam shit go bad?

MultiplaOrgasms > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:25

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The aussie Monaro actually was sold with a Series II L67.

DoYouEvenShift > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:33

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The Ozzys know how to do it! Point it in the right direction and I believe you could get it with a manual. Supercharged!

The 3.8 was a great engine for its time.

PS9 > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 15:34

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All of those have problems that aren’t really related to being from down under and/or being RWD.

The Catera just wasn’t a very good car. Not at all competitive with Germany like the modern Zetas are.

The GTO and G8 are good cars, but marketing them through Pontiac in hopes that two good entries among so many terrible ones across a few decades or so was asking for a miracle. Pontiac needed a generation of good-great cars across the entire lineup to reverse their reputation, much like what Hyundai, Kia, and Caddy did. But old GM simply wasn’t up to the level of investment needed to make that happen.

The SS is of course very good. Exemplary of what a perfomance sedan from GM should be like. But...

1) In the intervening years between this, the G8, and GMs axing of their RWD platforms, the Charger kinda took over that market niche and isn’t letting go.
2) The Commodore (the car the SS is under the skin) will die soon due to all of Holden’s Australian factories being shuttered. Even if it was a huge hit in the US, the SS would still have to leave the market place once the supply of commodores dried up.
3) The Impala is a huge seller for GM. We may not care too much for a FWD 4 cylinder Impala, but the buyers love it. Because of this;
4) GM isn’t too interested in changing the current winning formula all that much, which is why we don’t see Impala badged Commodores here. It’s also why the SS isn’t that heavily marketed and doesn’t have lower cost trim levels.

It’s worth noting that the Zeta platformed CTS and Camaro did just fine here, but those nameplates don’t have these specific set of stigmas associated with them.

Speed > AfromanGTO 01/05/2016 at 15:36

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“the owners would bitch on their way to Cracker Barrel.”

I just did a damn Muttley laugh while reading that quote and trying to be quiet with my reaction.

The Coupe 4.. Dem flares tho!

I’d even love a wrecked one for a AWD Chevelle swap or something. Imagine that car and the CV6 together + turbo. The Grand National whipped the Corvette’s ass in the 80s so it would only be fitting it did it again. Actually the AWD CV6 could have been the GNX.

Oz has the coolest shit.... UTE’s, AWD Goats, Kangaroos and Crocodile... The list goes on and on.

wiffleballtony > crowmolly 01/05/2016 at 15:39

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It was the lifters that necessitated a new cam. Apparently it’s GMs displacement on demand that eventually breaks causing lifters to stick. Mine just happened to break after 100k not around 50k like most people's.

crowmolly > wiffleballtony 01/05/2016 at 15:43

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100k is a good run vs. 50.

Did you dump the DOD entirely?

wiffleballtony > crowmolly 01/05/2016 at 15:46

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Not when at 50 you still have power train warranty when you don’t after 100.

Yes. DoD is gone via dynotune.

DoYouEvenShift > PS9 01/05/2016 at 15:48

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CTS is Sigma platform.

crowmolly > wiffleballtony 01/05/2016 at 15:51

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Ouch.

I hope you ended up with the power gain you wanted.

AfromanGTO > Speed 01/05/2016 at 16:09

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That’s an awesome laugh. lol

Wrecked Coupe 4s are still super pricey. You can get the awd drivetrain out of a wrecked 4wd Adventure LX8, and do a conversion. They make cool stuff over there, but they are insane when it comes to modding cars. To change something you have to someone install it, and then it be certified by an engineer. I’d rather just get all of their stuff over here. lol

wiffleballtony > crowmolly 01/05/2016 at 16:13

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+40 horsepower. Which is fine, the car is otherwise stock. It’s also my wife’s car and she finds the new power to be more than sufficient.

LJ909 > dogisbadob 01/05/2016 at 16:17

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I’ve seen a few Caprices running around my city that were probably bought at an auction or something. Its weird that they would release it only as a fleet special. It could have been a base of the SS or the SS is a performance version of the Caprice.

LJ909 > Svend 01/05/2016 at 16:20

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That could work, but Gm might give most if not all of them to Chevy’s already bloated lineup seeing as none of those would work at Cadillac or GMC. One might work at Buick, like the Adam, but it would look out of place in the lineup to me.

for Michigan > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 16:23

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The Catera’s problem was that it was a Cadillac. Even with the enthusiast-approved lineup that Cadillac has today, the Escalade is the only Cadillac that sells in any volume. Nobody buying a luxury car wants a Cadillac, it’s that simple. (Disclaimer: Not saying I wouldn’t drive one, just that the people who could would rather have a BMW/Merc/Audi.)

The GTO and SS share the problem of having no base model. Both are only available in enthusiast-spec, high-performance trim. Having a V6 GTO/SS might step on some toes , but it makes sense for the same reason as a V6 Mustang/Camaro/Challenger. Not everybody needs the V8 Track Pack with a 6-speed stick and most people don’t want that.

The G8 is odd, though. The Charger/300 sells well enough for Chrysler and is very similar, so I would expect that the G8 would be competitive. You mentioned the G8 having the same lack of marketing as the SS, but as far as I am aware it was the “official car” for the Times Square Ball Drop 2008 and the Rose Bowl, which seems like quite an effort to me. However, Pontiac sold about one G8 for every four Chargers that rolled off the lot, so who knows?

LJ909 > jariten1781 01/05/2016 at 16:24

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2.0t is too small of a motor for a car of that size. It could have worked with a base Caprice/Impala with the 3.6 or the V8 from the fleet police duty, and then the SS with a range of about 31-maybe 38k. But, because GM, this didn’t happen.

LJ909 > deekster_caddy 01/05/2016 at 16:26

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Which is stupid on their part. The truck shit is what got them into trouble last decade. Their trucks have had so much advertising over the years that they are the vehicles that can do without it for awhile. They sell themselves. If their marketing department realized this, then maybe the SS could have sold much more than the little it already has.

LJ909 > Matthew Phillips 01/05/2016 at 16:28

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If you do ever go for one, try looking for the Lucerne Super. One of the last most recent applications of the Northstar. the base 3.8 with 190 hp was horrible for a car of that size.

AfromanGTO > DoYouEvenShift 01/05/2016 at 16:32

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Yes, it should have, but I would have done the Holden conversion anyway.

AfromanGTO > for Michigan 01/05/2016 at 16:34

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Thank you for referring my post. Now teach me how to do that on here. lol

LJ909 > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/05/2016 at 16:34

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No it is 5-10k more than it should be. Like I said before, its knocking on the door of Corvette when you tack on the few bullshit options that it is. Yea its a great car, but to a lot of people, that V8 (which is down on power as it is), the special suspension, and Brembo brakes aren’t enough to justify an invisible performance sedan no one knows about.

AfromanGTO > AMC/Renauledge 01/05/2016 at 16:34

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For 2 and 3 don’t forget about the Solstice coming in on the lots, and taking attention away from the GTO and G8.

AfromanGTO > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 16:35

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GTO guys used to sell our old parts to Catera guys. lol

jariten1781 > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 16:36

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Weighs the same as an A6 which chips along fine with a 2.0T.

LJ909 > AMC/Renauledge 01/05/2016 at 16:37

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Well said. You basically summed up everything. Thanks.

LJ909 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 01/05/2016 at 16:40

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That’s true. But on the other hand they have a lot of brand and model overlap here in the US which is weird since they don’t allow other branches of the company to sell each others cars. We have the Chevy Sonic and two small crossovers under two different brands that are based on the Sonic, but we cant get a simple hot hatch or a large luxury sedan from Buick. Dumb.

CaptDale - is secretly British > dogisbadob 01/05/2016 at 16:40

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NO!! Sunroofs are the devil.

AfromanGTO > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 16:41

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The 04 was a really good sleeper. Thankfully with the 05-06 with the dual exhuast on each side, hood scoops, and optional 18s it made it look better. The SAP kit made them look more aggressive.

Svend > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 16:43

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Buick already has the Mokka/Encore, Insignia/Regal, Cascada, and I think there is another so Buick could be the U.S. Version of Britain’s Vauxhall, Europe’s Opel and Australasias Holden.

A Chevy small car could be the Vauxhall Viva/Opel Karl (which is a midway between the Adam and the Corsa).

They could just open what Opel (or whatever it is in Mexico). Have up to the North American market.

LJ909 > AfromanGTO 01/05/2016 at 16:44

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Your right. I think the Solstice did steal a lot of thunder from both the G* and the GTO, especially the GORGEOUS coupe. I remember hearing a lot about the markup problems and test drive problems the GTO. Some dealers had priced them as high as a Corvette, which just drove those people to actually get a Corvette. At least they made enough of the GTO that you can find a good amount on the used market. Sadly, cant say the same for the G8/GXP. Hell even the SS. I did an inventory search a few minutes ago for an SS on Chevy’s site, and found no new SS’ within 250 miles of me. Sad.

AfromanGTO > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 16:49

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Yes, but finding a good GTO is hard to do. I paid a little extra for mine, but it was the exact options I wanted and was in good shape. My SS sat on the dealer lot for 13 months next to it’s twin that didn’t have a sunroof.

If you really want to see something crazy try finding a Solstice Coupe or the GXP version of it, and see how much it costs!

itschrome > Milky 01/05/2016 at 16:49

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Seriously, the SS makes no sense as a stand alone. It should have been the new Impala, with RWD and AWD options and a choice of engines from 4 to 8 cylinders. It makes zero sense as a stand alone, well, standalone and semi fleet if we count the “caprice” cop option. I think Gm feels larger fwd cars are better for fleet sales or something, other wise it makes no sense.

LJ909 > AfromanGTO 01/05/2016 at 16:50

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Lol seriously?

LJ909 > AfromanGTO 01/05/2016 at 16:53

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Right after I got rid of my Jag S Type R I tried searching for used GTO’s and all the ones I found were either in shit condition, had been driven hard as hell, or a combination of both. The ones that were in good condition were still holding their value a little well. Solstice coupes have had a grip on their values. I think its in part because they made so few of them before Pontiac went away.

itschrome > wiffleballtony 01/05/2016 at 16:53

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the Catera is sadly, looks wise, right on point. It fit the rest of the GM’s 90’s line up. Really the issue might have been it looked too much like the rest of GM’s late 90’s line up. Well that and that 3.0 v6, which did not prove to be a very good long term engine. Hell when you point to pre-2001 northstar and say I’d rather have that than the 3.0 v6 from the Catera, you know it’s bad. Yes, I’d rather have catastrophic head gasket failure than the host of issues those things had, between electronics and mechanical.. That’s bad..

dogisbadob > CaptDale - is secretly British 01/05/2016 at 16:54

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Sunroofs are awesome. Stop the hate :)

Besides, they are quite popular and would definitely have increased sales.

itschrome > PS9 01/05/2016 at 16:54

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nailed it.

LJ909 > wiffleballtony 01/05/2016 at 16:55

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Seriously?

dogisbadob > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 16:55

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Exactly!

deekster_caddy > AMC/Renauledge 01/05/2016 at 16:55

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The renaming GM did across the board was a flop and confused people. Their customers knew the difference between a Grand Am and a Grand Prix. A G6? G8? Butttt there’s still the GTO, and no G4. Huh what? Buick did the same thing and it sucked. Regal, regal, regal, regal... Lacrosse? no, Lucerne? No, Lacrosse. No wait, okay it’s actually Verano. And just to fuck with you it’s also Regal. Park Avenue, a name that invoked thoughts of luxury... change to Lucerne? WTF does that mean?

Notice how they didn’t screw with Silverado or Sierra? Somebody slapped them back into place before they could change those names too.

LJ909 > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 01/05/2016 at 17:02

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Yea but at least they are using real people.

CaptDale - is secretly British > dogisbadob 01/05/2016 at 17:07

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Yes, but by now they would be leaking and broken = poor resale

AMC/Renauledge > AfromanGTO 01/05/2016 at 17:27

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The Solstice was such a different car, and by the time it hit lots, the GTO was on its way out. If anything, it could be said that the G8 took attention from the Solstice, since it came out jn the Solstice’s 3rd model year. But either way, they weren't competing for the same customers.

AMC/Renauledge > deekster_caddy 01/05/2016 at 17:30

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Well actually, Silverado and Sierra were just trim lines on the C/K pickups through 1999. So those names did change.

And I think the reason GM changed so many Pontiac, Olds, Buick, and Cadillac names (not to mention the smaller Chevys) was because of bad associations with their crappy predecessors.

wiffleballtony > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 17:37

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Failed lifters due to GMs Displacement on Demand, causing damage to the camshaft. $1,500 in labor and another $1,ooo in parts. Not including the added cost of a dyno tune and taxes to remove the DoD. Granted, if I had the time, tools and skill I probably could have saved the labor but sadly I do not.

AfromanGTO > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 17:37

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Exactly! We calls the owners of those poor GTOs FPFQ. A GTO in good condition is still in the high teens to low 20s. The GXP Solstice Coupes cost more than they did new....

dogisbadob > CaptDale - is secretly British 01/05/2016 at 17:38

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Quality sunroofs and T-tops don’t leak. My 20-yo Maxima sunroof doesn’t leak, and the ES300 I used to have didn’t give me any problems.

Even GM eventually figured out how to make non-leaky t-tops by 1991. Plastic for light weight and easier to remove (although they did scratch quite easily). The redesigned seals came around the same time as the plastic tops.

Most of the leakers are aftermarket sunroofs.

AfromanGTO > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 17:39

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Yes, it is actually pretty funny. The 05-06 guys would upgrade their brakes, and sell their old brakes to the 04 guys, and the 04 guys would sell their brakes to the Caddy guys. Plus some other parts. lol

Hoccy > duurtlang 01/05/2016 at 17:40

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I’ve gotten the impression that every sedan smaller than a Caprice can be called a sportscar in the USA...

The Omega is one of the cars I like, even though I know it is horrible. It’s just something about them offering a cheap, rather powerful, old school RWD car for so long.

Hoccy > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 17:42

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Opel. Germany wasn’t Down Under last time I checked.

AfromanGTO > AMC/Renauledge 01/05/2016 at 17:44

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The Solstice production began in Summer 05, and were on the lots soon after that. GTO production ended mid 06. To get the Solstice Pontiac made some dealers sell a certain amount of GTOs. Remember the Solstice was something new and fresh. A 2 seater convertible from Pontiac, and it was cheaper too.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > LJ909 01/05/2016 at 17:54

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On the options thing, that’s hardly a fair comparison. It’s the same as the people who don’t understand the pricing on the Colorado. Almost bottom rung of one model vs almost top rung of another should not be compared. Or in this case top rung with bottom rung.

On the price, change the badge for a Pontiac (imagining that they’re still around) and it looks more reasonable. It looks high as a Chevy because performance cars from Chevy are supposed to be lower-priced giant slayers.